Ep. 6 Domestic Violence and Human Trafficking in Tennessee

In this episode, Judge Ana Escobar of Nashville, Judge Robert Philyaw of Chattanooga, Assistant Disctrict Attorney Sarah Wolfson of Nashville and Jerry Redman, executive director of Street Grace in Chattanooga, TN  discuss how human trafficking and domestic violence intertwine and the steps both the court system, outside organizations and communities are taking in order to help recognize and solve human trafficking in Tennessee. 

Produced by Nick Morgan

Transcript

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;22;26
Host
Welcome to Tennessee Court Talk. I'm your host, Barbara Peck. This episode is intended for judges, lawyers and policymakers. Today, we are discussing the intersection between human trafficking and domestic violence. Our first guest is Judge Ana Escobar. She is a general sessions judge in Davidson County and oversees the state's only human trafficking intervention court. Our second guest is Sarah Wolfson.

00;00;23;03 - 00;00;54;00
Host
She is an assistant district attorney in Davidson County who specializes in human trafficking cases. Our third guest is judge Rob Philyaw He's a juvenile judge in Hamilton County. And our fourth guest is Jerry Redmond. He is the executive director of Street Grace in Chattanooga, an organization dedicated to ending the commercial sexual exploitation of children. Judge Escobar, when we think of human trafficking, I think our initial vision is often strangers in gangs, kidnaping victims, forcibly holding them, and then selling them for sex.

00;00;54;02 - 00;00;57;23
Host
But how are domestic violence and human trafficking intertwined?

00;00;57;26 - 00;01;32;18
Judge Escobar
Well, it's very interesting. Human trafficking relationships have so many components. And what I have realized is that, domestic violence really plays a big part of it. So much so that a power and control wheel has been developed for human trafficking victims. So you have the same, you know, intimidation, emotional abuse, isolation that you see in domestic violence, but you also see, the using of making the person who's being trafficked for your special given privileges.

00;01;32;18 - 00;01;58;05
Judge Escobar
So it's that whole power control wheel of, abuse. But then the, sorry. And then a reward or a, you know, a gift. So it's very interesting. And a lot of these people in human trafficking actually are in relationships with their human trafficker, and they believe that, you know, that their true love and that the trafficker has their best interests at heart.

00;01;58;08 - 00;02;02;20
Host
Sara, how are you seeing domestic violence and human trafficking coexisting?

00;02;02;23 - 00;02;24;09
Sarah Wolfson
So especially if you're in a place where you have a specialized domestic violence court, oftentimes these cases will just run directly through as a domestic violence case because domestic violence is intimate partners, family is. And oftentimes traffickers are or will present as the intimate partner of the victim. And oftentimes it is familial. So familial trafficking is a big thing as well.

00;02;24;16 - 00;02;41;24
Sarah Wolfson
So a lot of the ways that, we're seeing these trafficking cases actually come through is that they're presenting as domestic violence cases. And with just a little bit more digging. It actually, they can be identified as not just intimate partners, but a trafficker and a victim.

00;02;42;01 - 00;02;47;29
Host
So, Sara, can you describe some of these situations where you have encountered human trafficking intertwined with domestic violence?

00;02;48;06 - 00;03;09;03
Sarah Wolfson
Sure. First of all, I always like to say that the movie, taken with Liam Neeson, is one of my least favorite films at this point, because that's just where, you know, this image of shackles and chains comes from. But a lot of the ways that I see these cases presented actually are because I come in close contact with our domestic violence team at the DA's office.

00;03;09;10 - 00;03;36;13
Sarah Wolfson
So oftentimes what we'll see is a victim will come in. And this is just one example that I have 18 years old. The the defendant was 46 years old. She was pregnant by this 46 year old defendant. There were a couple of other elements. The incident took place in a motel room. There were just a couple of elements that said to the domestic violence, Ada, that this wasn't just a cut and dry DV issue, that there might be something more going on here.

00;03;36;13 - 00;04;05;01
Sarah Wolfson
So they gave me a call when I came down to interview the victim, who did, in fact, turn out that from the time that she was 16 years old, this defendant who she was in court for a domestic violence incident with, had actually been trafficking her two other men. So oftentimes, just those simple relationships that you can look at and say, this was a DV case, you know, he hit her and and here we are, just looking for some of those other red flags that can actually be a human trafficking case.

00;04;05;03 - 00;04;30;06
Judge Escobar
I would agree the age difference has always been kind of a red flag for me. Not that there's anything wrong with people falling in love with people with an age difference, but you can just tell that this couple doesn't really fit. Another thing, that I've found interesting is in my particular case, I'm thinking of the, victim referred to her trip to the defendant as daddy, which I thought was interesting.

00;04;30;06 - 00;04;56;07
Judge Escobar
Rather than sweetie or honey or, you know, something more loving. And also, they seem to live in houses. Full of people. And, these people aren't related, so it's more of a a brothel, I guess. But, you know, for lack of a better word. But it's interesting when they can't explain where they work, where the trafficker works. And then they're in this house with people that they barely know.

00;04;56;14 - 00;04;59;18
Host
Judge Philyaw? What are you seeing in your juvenile courtroom?

00;04;59;20 - 00;05;24;12
Judge Philyaw
Well, we were talking earlier, before we started, about how sometimes it's hard to discern, hard to know. And many times the the teenagers will, of course, deny or make up stories and as, as the adult victims do, that make it hard to or harder to know, what's what's going on? I mean, they we've we've got we've had situations here locally where it's obvious.

00;05;24;14 - 00;05;43;11
Judge Philyaw
We had a young lady spend Christmas week four Christmases ago in the hospital, and she'd been running and and we knew she we were afraid she was going to run again. So we kept somebody with her 24 hours a day for the first couple of days. And after that, after a couple of days, she said, don't worry, I'm not going.

00;05;43;13 - 00;06;04;23
Judge Philyaw
You know, that was a severe case because the doctor said, you know, she the doctor actually said, I've never seen anything that's bad. She'll never have children. And the infection was just so, so, so bad. You know, then, this year, we had a young teenage boy who was kidnaped from, state three states away, and was coming through Chattanooga.

00;06;04;23 - 00;06;29;12
Judge Philyaw
And luckily we had an alert police officer who just didn't think something, you know, didn't look right. That young man denied, his identity and gave us a false ID and didn't did not want any part of of help. At first. And then, some the right folks. Not very not unlike some of Jerry's folks, but it wasn't Jerry's folks, but some.

00;06;29;12 - 00;06;45;29
Judge Philyaw
The right folks talked to him, finally figured out who he was, what was happening, and then he broke down and said, I was told that I've already been beaten up a couple of times. I was told I was being taken, to a southern state west of here to be raped. And this was a young, you know, young man.

00;06;46;02 - 00;07;05;05
Judge Philyaw
And so and if not for that alert police officer and then alert intake officer, actually, one of my staffers who who just said something's just not right here and kept asking the questions. We wouldn't have figured that out. And in the next day and the next morning, early, his mom was here, to pick him up and take him back.

00;07;05;07 - 00;07;34;25
Judge Philyaw
So. But you know, those those are those two instances are extreme. More times than that. You know, it's a it's the teenage girl who runs. And then when, when when we get up, when we get her, you know, either she's arrested because there's been a runaway attachment out for her or whatever. And she's given a drug test, and, and she's positive for, you know, multiple, hard drugs that normal people just don't.

00;07;34;29 - 00;07;51;24
Judge Philyaw
Even abusers don't take together. And, you know, you just, you know, that this 15 year old girl is not buying these drugs. Somebody has given them to her. And that's that's, you know, more times than not. I guess what I'm trying to say is that's how we first get, a clue as to what's going on.

00;07;52;01 - 00;08;00;08
Host
So what are some of the unique complexities you see in relationships where human trafficking and domestic violence are intertwined? Sarah.

00;08;00;10 - 00;08;24;17
Sarah Wolfson
So there's something called trauma bonding. And trauma bonding is what we see every single day working with these cases. And it's, not unlike Stockholm syndrome, where they kind of become connected to this person who has in some way preyed on their vulnerability in a way where they feel that the victim feels that she needs, her trafficker.

00;08;24;17 - 00;08;52;11
Sarah Wolfson
She needs this person. This person has taken care of her. It's it's a relationship very similar to domestic violence. And it is domestic violence in the sense that, the trafficker will make the victim oftentimes feel very unworthy and that he will, or she will present as their savior. And I think that trauma bonding, one of the elements of trauma bonding is just the fact that you have somebody who's vulnerable and somebody who's preying on those vulnerabilities.

00;08;52;14 - 00;09;19;09
Sarah Wolfson
And, when that vulnerable person feels saved or cared for, they bond to that person. And then a second element of that is that if there is physical abuse involved or even emotional abuse involved, there's a gratefulness from the victim when the, trafficker does not inflict that kind of pain. So it becomes this, this vision of sort of well, today he didn't beat me.

00;09;19;09 - 00;09;39;24
Sarah Wolfson
And I'm really grateful for that. Or today he bought me a really great dinner. So I'm really grateful for that. And, you know, he took care of me that way. Or he took me off the street and yeah, he beat me all the time, but he also fed me. So there's that big element of trauma bonding that that's really, really strong and prevalent in these trafficking cases.

00;09;39;24 - 00;09;45;10
Sarah Wolfson
And we see it a lot with adults, but we see it really a lot with juveniles.

00;09;45;13 - 00;09;54;05
Host
Jerry, you obviously see these cases from a different perspective. What elements of coercion do you commonly see in these types of cases?

00;09;54;08 - 00;10;06;02
Jerry Redman
You know, the young, the young, the boys, young men, the boys are required to do certain things. The girls are required to do certain things. And it certainly qualifies as human trafficking and sex abuse.

00;10;06;05 - 00;10;11;05
Host
Okay. But how does coercion look different in juvenile cases? Judge Escobar

00;10;11;12 - 00;10;36;26
Judge Escobar
sadly, when your parent is your trafficker, I think, that just brings up a ton of issues. We recently had a young lady who whose mother was her trafficker and the one who introduced her to drugs, and she knew that if she was around her mother, she would, you know, use drugs. But she loved her mother, you know?

00;10;36;26 - 00;10;50;14
Judge Escobar
So it's that whole dynamic. I mean, you still love your mother. You still want to be with her. I believe she was sick. Wasn't she serious or she. She wanted to be her caretakers. It's just a complex, dynamic.

00;10;50;16 - 00;10;56;21
Host
Does. Wait. Okay, so does coersion always obviously look like coersion?

00;10;56;23 - 00;11;52;05
Sarah Wolfson
There is a huge incidence in most of the trafficking cases that I see right now. Do you kind of biggest forms of coercion are either in a familiar trafficking situation where, the juvenile or in a doll are they are working for one of the parents, to either help pay rent, help get mom drugs because mom is sick. That's one of the huge things that I see. And that is. Coercion. I think kind of the biggest. Form of Coercion that I see that is most shocking to people that it is considered coercion, but it is under the statute, it's the siltation of drug abuse. So under our statute here in Tennessee for human trafficking, withholding drugs is a form of coercion. And I see that in almost all of my cases, because drug is, as we all well know, have a very physical effect on the body.

00;11;52;05 - 00;12;14;14
Sarah Wolfson
So withholding those drugs from somebody who is drug addicted and having that person go cold turkey, that severe illness, is actually classified as coercion. So somebody saying if you don't go out, I'm not going to be able to get other drugs or I'm not going to give you these drugs, that's a severe form of coercion for a man or a woman who is addicted.

00;12;14;17 - 00;12;40;02
Sarah Wolfson
And that's something that under the trafficking statute, we acknowledge as coercion. And it's something that I think is the most drastically different from what the general public sees as coercion. I think that this kind of scenario of the drug addicted victim and the abusive trafficker, that's kind of the most unpalatable to the general public. But it's something that is, I think, the most prevalent.

00;12;40;05 - 00;13;14;10
Jerry Redman
There was research that was released in early 2017 that reported of those cases in the US of trafficking for 2016 that were discovered, it was right at 40% of the identified traffickers were immediate family members. They didn't even speak to any poly victimization, such as domestic violence, so on and so forth. So then you add the drug element to that, and it mushrooms the amount of trauma inflicted on those particular victims.

00;13;14;13 - 00;13;44;25
Jerry Redman
And it said a lot of the general public is going to find this so un not just unpalatable but unbelievable that someone could ever do this. But I've said quite often, I may get in trouble for saying it here, but here in the South, especially in our region of the South, sex within family systems, in certain certain aspects of our region is known to be a multi long time generational thing.

00;13;44;27 - 00;13;59;01
Jerry Redman
It's not even a full step to take what has gone on for generations within certain family systems, and then make that commercial. I don't care what the drug is, or whether it's about making sure the rent or the food, whatever it may be.

00;13;59;09 - 00;14;16;08
Host
Why are children particularly vulnerable to human trafficking? Again, I think our initial image of a juvenile human trafficking is a child kidnaped by a stranger and sold into slavery. But how does human trafficking intertwined with domestic violence look in a juvenile setting, Jerry?

00;14;16;08 - 00;14;42;01
Jerry Redman
There's a famous chilling line from an exposé that Anderson Cooper did on this a decade or more ago. A social worker in Atlanta working very closely with this population said, if you're a dealer, you can only sell a dime bag once, but you can sell a 12 year old over and over again. That sounds almost like an oversimplification, but that's the reality of it.

00;14;42;04 - 00;15;04;20
Sarah Wolfson
Yeah. And, human trafficking is is the second largest criminal enterprise behind drug trafficking. And it is climbing because. Exactly. For exactly that reason, if you sell drugs, that product is gone. But you sell a woman, she comes right back and you sell her again, and she comes right back. So you never have to spend your money to re-up on a product.

00;15;04;23 - 00;15;14;08
Sarah Wolfson
That product is there. So as much as I hate that because it's very dehumanizing, but it kind of is that that gang or enterprise mentality of human trafficking.

00;15;14;13 - 00;15;25;14
Host
Okay, let's talk about how we can better recognize these cases. What makes human trafficking cases that present with domestic violence particularly difficult to identify?

00;15;25;17 - 00;15;52;18
Jerry Redman
The judge mentioned the power and control we'll children have neither. Again, maybe an oversimplification, but they are so so they are the low hanging fruit for those who are looking to exploit people for their own benefit. And the judge also mentioned the fact that oftentimes it's for a family member or even a parent. And again, all of the general public may say, I don't understand how they could feel that way.

00;15;52;20 - 00;15;59;00
Jerry Redman
Most kids love their parents in spite in spite of what they've inflicted on them.

00;15;59;03 - 00;16;25;06
Sarah Wolfson
I think that, prosecuting cases with juvenile victims is extremely challenging for a couple of reasons. One is because juveniles are very prone to just running, they, they don't really have interest in, following along for a year or two long or two year long process that is prosecuting one of these cases. But beyond that, the reason that juveniles are particularly vulnerable is because as a class, they are particularly vulnerable.

00;16;25;06 - 00;16;44;12
Sarah Wolfson
You think about how long it takes us to kind of build up our confidence as people or juveniles, especially the ones that are most susceptible to trafficking, typically don't have stable family unit. They're runaways. They might be truant, they might engage in criminal activity themselves. So in terms of prosecuting these cases of juveniles as victims, where am I?

00;16;44;14 - 00;17;17;04
Sarah Wolfson
Where are we as a society, putting these juveniles so that they can receive the services that they need to build themselves up enough to confront the fact that they were, in fact, traffic? That's number one. Oftentimes juveniles don't even want to identify that way. But number two, how are we fixing this cycle for them? Where this on stability, this instability that they, that they have, is kind of tamed enough for them to go through the traumatic process of prosecuting their traffickers.

00;17;17;04 - 00;17;40;14
Sarah Wolfson
So with adults, it's it's similar, but with adults you have a situation where they are able to find housing, they're able to go out and, and, get kind of broad services because they are adults, whereas juveniles are reliant on somebody else to help them with that. Somebody else to do that for them. Juveniles have to be placed somewhere.

00;17;40;14 - 00;18;06;13
Sarah Wolfson
They have to be placed in housing. If they have parents that are active in their life. We as a state can't, without good reason take them away. Unless, like I said, there's a good reason. So again, we're in this situation with juvenile victims where getting them to cooperate with a process like prosecution involves them having stability and getting that stability for a juvenile is extremely challenging.

00;18;06;14 - 00;18;21;05
Host
Okay, so we've identified that children are increasingly vulnerable in these situations. Judge Philyaw, what are the biggest obstacles that you're facing in reaching a good outcome when you start to suspect a defendant in your courtroom, maybe a victim of human trafficking?

00;18;21;08 - 00;18;48;07
Judge Philyaw
Tennessee, much like a lot of states, lacks, lack enough enough services to to effectively do that. And unfortunately, number of beds for these type of victims, is very, very, very, very few. In fact, we were talking earlier about how hard it is to to place a, a juvenile victim who is also suffering from maybe drug addiction and, and other things and needs.

00;18;48;07 - 00;19;13;28
Judge Philyaw
Re real rehabilitative help. And we as a state don't have a whole lot to, to offer them, you know, juveniles. We know we know juvenile brains are not fully developed. And in picking up on the earlier conversation, we know that brains you know, our frontal lobe particularly decision making logic that those sorts of things don't the brain's not fully developed until mid 20s.

00;19;13;28 - 00;19;34;04
Judge Philyaw
You know the numbers. Different studies say different things a little bit different for males and females. But we're talking about 15 year olds, 16 year olds here who are vulnerable already for so many, so many reasons. And when you throw in, you know, maybe poverty or dependency, neglect from their from their parents, you know, that makes them even more, it's acceptable.

00;19;34;06 - 00;20;04;29
Judge Philyaw
But also 15, 16, 17 year olds who are out using drugs sometimes don't even realize that they're being used, that they're being trafficked in. And, and, you know, the, the perception that their abuser tries to paint and, and I think sometimes they buy into it is that it's a big old party. And, so, so that just really adds to the issue with the already immature, already very vulnerable, juvenile victims.

00;20;05;01 - 00;20;28;13
Sarah Wolfson
And just one more thing to add to with this is that the complexity of the trauma that comes from specifically trafficking, as opposed to some other types of trauma, I think that we need special services to address. And that's something that as a state, we are kind of at the forefront of specifically for adults. We do very well in addressing, the complex wraparound trauma that we need for adults.

00;20;28;15 - 00;20;55;23
Sarah Wolfson
But for juveniles, like I said, it's a little bit harder to tap into. But it's not simply I. In my personal opinion at least, simple therapy might not address kind of the the layers of trauma that human trafficking specifically can inflict on anybody, but particularly a juvenile. So it's that very complex trauma that makes it challenging to address these cases with juveniles.

00;20;56;00 - 00;21;10;05
Host
And what about outside organizations? If the state cannot do everything from identifying victims to prosecuting defendants to helping find wraparound services, what are some of the ways, like nonprofits like yours, Jerry, can help?

00;21;10;07 - 00;21;33;25
Jerry Redman
First of all, an apologist for the state. It's because I speak to a lot of audiences where during the Q and A, I get these questions. Well, what are our judges? Our prosecutors are law enforcement. And so what are they doing all the way to the white House? And I my answer is typically everything they can with the very limited resource base that that they have.

00;21;33;25 - 00;22;07;00
Jerry Redman
I always turn it around to the community. I'm Becca Stevens, the founder of This Farms in Nashville has a great statement. This problem is created at the community level, therefore should be incumbent primarily on the community to solve it. And I've just always been a big believer in that. One of the things that we've always done is as an organization is come alongside those those local, state and federal partners, some of whom have sought us out.

00;22;07;02 - 00;22;37;25
Jerry Redman
But our question has always been, how can we help you if if my organization is going to be of any help to this population, I need to be making sure I'm just as much of a help to those local, state, federal agencies that are providing service. But none of these issues in this larger issue as a media issue will be solved if we, the community, are not willing to spend the money necessary to address it.

00;22;37;25 - 00;23;07;10
Jerry Redman
And I find quite often that the conversation goes in a different direction or stops with the community. When I start talking about the dollars that are needed. Tennessee from from a legislative standpoint, our legislature is quite engaged and has been quite generous in the moneys that they have been willing to put forward in this. But that's but they don't have enough money to take care of the residential needs alone.

00;23;07;12 - 00;23;39;21
Judge Philyaw
If all we're talking about is beds for even getting into therapy, it's educational needs, etc., just what it's going to take to safely house kids, the private sector that's there. At least that should be their space. And that's a that's a space where if they would be willing to step in partnering with us, through us so that we can link arms with with our governmental partners, we could begin to see a turning of the tide in this series already.

00;23;39;21 - 00;23;50;23
Jerry Redman
Intimately, the fact that we've got so much in place for adult victims, we are lagging, though, however, in serving our children and youth who've been victimized in this way.

00;23;51;00 - 00;24;02;04
Host
Wow, excellent point, our nonprofit partners are so, so important, but what can judges better do to recognize human trafficking cases? What questions should they be asking Judge Escobar?

00;24;02;07 - 00;24;35;00
Judge Escobar
Well, I will say, I've been in the domestic violence field for about seven years now, and I've had a crash course in human trafficking once I took over this court. And once you have that mindset, I don't know if you experienced this judge. You're always like, oh, that person could potentially be a victim. So what? I was going to talk to the judges about is that you just you get this sense like you were talking, judge, where, you know, you start hearing a victim testify and then you figure out, wait a minute.

00;24;35;00 - 00;25;17;11
Judge Escobar
The location of the arrest was in a hotel. Motel, you know, massage parlor. They've got branding. We had a young lady go through our program that had her traffickers tattoo on her neck. So it can be that obvious. You know, like I said before, multiple people who aren't related living in houses, that age gap, and even though they present as a domestic violence couple, there's not that love or intimacy that you see in most couples, even if they're fighting, you can tell when they have been told what to say in court.

00;25;17;13 - 00;25;44;14
Judge Escobar
You can tell that they are disconnected from family and friends and seem to only rely on this, trafficker. And you know what has made me pause sometimes is the way these, ladies most often show up in court. I had a young lady come in, basically, little House on the Prairie type dress, like it was so ridiculously staged.

00;25;44;17 - 00;26;04;24
Judge Escobar
She, you know, high collar, like, so proper. But you could tell she was uncomfortable in those clothes. It was like an act, you know? And so there are different things that judges can do. I oftentimes will stop and say something to the defense attorney in the, in the prosecutor and say, hey, if you all talk to this person, are they safe?

00;26;04;26 - 00;26;27;15
Judge Escobar
What can we do? Can we offer them numbers? But honestly, a lot of times they will not admit right there because the traffickers sitting right there. But my hope is that if they see that others see that they're in this situation and are given phone numbers, given resources, that some day along the line we have planted a seed where they can reach out.

00;26;27;17 - 00;26;45;06
Sarah Wolfson
We're really all about planting the seed. In domestic violence relationships, it takes seven times, I believe, to leave your abuser. And I want to say it's probably more with trafficking. I don't have the exact statistic in front of me, but I mean, to get like, we started out this podcast with, it's not a hooray, thank you for rescuing me situation.

00;26;45;07 - 00;27;25;29
Sarah Wolfson
Almost none of the time. So really, what kind of work I set out to do is plant a seed. That's what we do in our trafficking intervention court. We don't expect every woman to come through this court to be successful the first time that she comes. And in fact, most of the time they are not. But what we do see is that if we can have a conversation, whether it's with a victim who comes to the domestic violence court, if we can say to them, look, I see this, and even if they're going to sit there and deny it, if we say we see it and and here's who you can call if you want to. We do see these women back two years later, even three years later, they'll come back. We've seen the time.

00;27;25;29 - 00;27;45;20
Judge Escobar
Yeah, we've had ladies terminated from our program who, 2 or 3 years later, come back through the criminal justice system and want to come back to us. And now they're ready for the help. And that is wonderful, honestly. So we always tell them, even when, when I have to terminate them. Look, you know, we're here whenever you're ready.

00;27;45;20 - 00;27;56;03
Judge Escobar
We're here. But it is heartbreaking. Heartbreaking when you when you see the people aren't ready. But it's not about me. It's about them and their journey. And we got to respect that.

00;27;56;05 - 00;28;06;04
Host
So let's switch to the prosecution end. What makes human trafficking cases that present with domestic violence particularly difficult to prosecute? And how do you overcome those challenges?

00;28;06;06 - 00;28;28;02
Sarah Wolfson
The biggest challenges are, of course, the the subset of victims that we're working with. I think human trafficking victims are some of the most vulnerable that, we deal with in the criminal justice system for so many reasons, like I spoke about before, just the layers of trauma. But in addition to that, what makes these hard to prosecute as well, is the community's understanding of what human trafficking looks like.

00;28;28;02 - 00;28;53;26
Sarah Wolfson
So if I take a case to a jury trial, which, quite frankly, I have not taken a human trafficking case to a jury trial. They take a very long time, to prepare. But say that I do, and I'm picking a jury. Well, I want jurors who understand that drugs can be used as coercion. I want jurors to understand that this victim had access to a cell phone the entire time that she was with her trafficker.

00;28;54;02 - 00;29;16;22
Sarah Wolfson
I want jurors to understand that. Yes, she walked away from her trafficker, went into a gas station, ran into a hotel clerk and didn't say anything. And I want those jurors understand that she was still being trafficked. And right now, with the community is understanding. And I think that we're making strides, we in our education for the community on what trafficking is.

00;29;16;24 - 00;29;34;29
Sarah Wolfson
But it's really, really important that we continue that education, because for me to prosecute these cases, I need a community that understands what these cases look like. And I, I hope that we're there. I don't know if we're there yet, but if we are not there, hopefully we get there. And that's just one of the big barriers that I see.

00;29;34;29 - 00;29;52;04
Sarah Wolfson
Just aside from the class of victims, like I said, which is, of course, that that first jump is even getting a victim on board or getting enough, evidence surrounding, that incident that I don't need the victim. Huge barrier. Second huge barrier is just education.

00;29;52;04 - 00;30;14;24
Judge Escobar
And I'm sure the trafficker knows everything about the victim. So he, he or she would know their mental health issues, you know, their addiction issues, whatever issues that can be used to discredit. Another thing is when you speak to people, I'm sure y'all have found this in the community about human trafficking. They they think Thailand or, you know, somewhere across, you know, or the.

00;30;14;29 - 00;30;16;22
Judge Philyaw
Yeah, the lady chain to the hot water heater in the basement.

00;30;16;22 - 00;30;24;14
Judge Escobar
Wire, right, right, right, right. So it's hard. And I think you had a graph where how many U.S. citizens were actually.

00;30;24;17 - 00;30;51;09
Sarah Wolfson
Yeah. It's our citizenship of referrals. This came from end slavery. Out of 200, I suppose in 2018, 191 of those were U.S. citizens. So I think the perception that it's all kind of a foreign or abroad issue is a big thing. And it's just kind of not not the truth here. And another kind of, big thing is exactly what judge said about credibility.

00;30;51;09 - 00;31;24;12
Sarah Wolfson
So even if I do have a victim who's on board, putting that person on the stand to testify is not only extremely traumatic, but oftentimes they present to a jury as not the most credible witness. Why? Because they have mental health issues. They're drug addicted, they've committed crimes. They have a long criminal history. They, you know, may have done some things that in their life that people would look at and say, well, you got yourself into this situation.

00;31;24;18 - 00;31;44;03
Sarah Wolfson
But of course, that is not the truth. These women who have been trafficked have experienced trauma that probably started when they were young. They deserve for us to believe their story. They deserve for us to respect their story. And I think that's another huge barrier is just that, that perception of what a victim looks like.

00;31;44;03 - 00;31;59;23
Judge Escobar
Another issue I think you have found is that they're on a circuit. So they're not in Nashville or Chattanooga, you know, for a year or two. They're there for two weeks, and then they get changed out into the circuit. So it's very hard to find them.

00;31;59;28 - 00;32;29;20
Jerry Redman
Yeah, yeah. Leaving you making sure that they're disoriented somewhat off their game is certainly something that we have seen. We have also seen where familial trafficking is concerned that the if especially if it is a family member or a child who is a majority, they are actually allowed some level of autonomy in their lives. But then it goes back to the trauma, the trauma, bonding and whatnot.

00;32;29;20 - 00;33;01;00
Jerry Redman
So they may even be left alone for a week, two weeks or so. But then the text or the call comes and that person has to decide what the cost of compliance is versus the cost of non compliance. Either way, there's a cost. And we've had many survivors talk to us over the years as to what went into their decision making as to when, when they would show up, where they're supposed to show up and what would cost them every now and then to to not and then bear the cost of it later.

00;33;01;00 - 00;33;19;24
Jerry Redman
I'll add one of the things has already been mentioned here. I think the taken movies already in reference to what and and I, you know, God bless Liam Neeson. At least it got some of the conversation started back in the day. I heard from friends say, hey, I saw that movie about that thing you do. And then I finally got to see the movie and I thought, well, I don't do any of that.

00;33;19;24 - 00;33;50;03
Jerry Redman
I tying somebody to a chair and electrocuted him is not really in our policies and procedures, but it was a great conversation starter. What I continue to run into out in the community are the folks who they they are willing to accept the surprising data around the fact that most of our victims are U.S born and U.S. citizens, that they're even, they're even willing to accept the surprising data that trafficking is local.

00;33;50;05 - 00;34;06;06
Jerry Redman
But it's still they talk to me about, well, I have heard I shouldn't go to certain places, I shouldn't go to certain stores because they'll snatch me out of the parking. I swear to God, I heard this last week I was working out and a workout friend said, oh, you know, I've heard about that thing you do, Jerry.

00;34;06;06 - 00;34;19;15
Jerry Redman
Good on you whatnot. And I've been told I shouldn't go to such. I won't say it here. Such. But you hear it all the time. Churchville. Yeah. I didn't go to such and such place to shop because they'll snatch you going like no, man, you shouldn't go to such a such place to shop just because it's weird over there.

00;34;19;20 - 00;34;48;11
Jerry Redman
But it's more likely that somebody you already know is going to do that to you. I before coming here, I spoke to a group at lunch. One of the people that came up to me after to thank me for coming. They spun this crazy story that grew legs on the internet about three years ago, about these high powered, high level individuals that are running very sophisticated trafficking operations out of storefronts and whatnot.

00;34;48;11 - 00;35;16;18
Jerry Redman
And I just had to sit there and gently try to redirect them into how it most likely is going to look. I know that trafficking can happen to anyone, by anyone, anywhere, but if this is the fastest growing organized crime in the world and it and it is, our response should be just as organized. The Air Force should be just as intelligent and informed as those who are perpetrating the crime. Because they are informed, they are intelligent, they are organized.

00;35;16;18 - 00;35;31;19
Host
So tell me. About what streetwise does on the prosecution end, not just providing services. Part. Your goal is to end sexual exploitation of children. What are you doing and how are you helping to collect evidence and help prosecutors?

00;35;31;22 - 00;36;04;02
Jerry Redman
We have, for instance, a a bot program that we use. And I will say that I can't go too far down the road of discussing technology because I'm I'm not well versed there. But the bot Gracie has been developed by some partners of ours. It right now is having conversations in various states around the country, including Tennessee, posing as a 15 year old white, black, Latina, Asian female, as well as a 15 year old boy.

00;36;04;04 - 00;36;35;01
Jerry Redman
Gracie can negotiate services, rates, locations and times, and then at whatever point, the potential buyer agrees on service the rate and the place. Then Gracie sends another text message and this is all run through fake ads that have been set up on sites where people looking to buy sex with kids are known to frequent. A text is then sent to let the potential buyer know, here's actually what's been going on.

00;36;35;04 - 00;37;24;22
Jerry Redman
You. You've been negotiating the rape of a child, and your contact info has been cataloged has now been passed along to both local to the local, state and federal law enforcement based on where you are. Oh, by the way, though, here is here is a list of services in your local area for folks that have the issue that you have of being drawn to sexual relationships with children, some hundred thousand, individual text conversations since last year through that, that tool. And about 15% of those who are negotiating to buy sex with a child have at least clicked on the first link of the services that could help them regarding their their issue.

00;37;24;25 - 00;37;31;27
Host
So once you're providing services to victims, what types of services are available around the state and why is this so important, Sarah?

00;37;31;29 - 00;38;08;24
Sarah Wolfson
Well, like I said, prosecuting a human trafficking case is extremely complex. For me to prosecute a human trafficking case can take up to two years. Just to gather all the evidence that I need in order to take that to trial. So the importance of getting wraparound services is that, first of all, it gives this victim time to build up their confidence, their self-esteem, to address the trauma, and to hopefully be in a place where by the time they have to confront their trafficker, if they do, they feel kind of more stable than they, they were.

00;38;08;26 - 00;38;31;27
Sarah Wolfson
But of course, the other really important part about getting wraparound services as it relates to prosecution is that without those wraparound services, this person is still so vulnerable. And with that vulnerability means that this person is probably not going to stick around. Somebody else is going to prey on that vulnerability. We can keep her trafficker in custody, but there's another one out there.

00;38;32;04 - 00;39;03;03
Sarah Wolfson
And if this person, this man or woman who's been trafficked doesn't receive the kind of services that he or she needs to kind of build them up and show them that there's community, there's love, their safety and all of that. Well, they're back in the same position that they started in. So in terms of just keeping a victim around, keeping a victim safe, and keeping a victim available, getting those kind of wraparound services and getting that treatment is the most important thing that we can do.

00;39;03;06 - 00;39;35;16
Judge Escobar
What I love about our court is that some of our partners not only address the trauma, the addiction and and those things, but also help the person get a skill, with them. In slavery Tennessee, there is a program, strings of Hope, where the ladies, are able to make jewelry and sell it through their program. And of course, Thistle Farms, has both a cafe, and I invite all of you to come and eat at the cafe.

00;39;35;16 - 00;40;07;07
Judge Escobar
It's amazing you feel so good after you've left there. And then they're wonderful products. We have a participant in our court who just started the candle making part of the of the training, and so she's very excited to be back at work, knowing that she can put that on her resume and, and gain some skills. And she could stay at Thistle Farms if she'd like. So I think giving them that not only the love and support that they need, but tools to, you know, get out there and start their next chapter of their lives.

00;40;07;10 - 00;40;30;23
Jerry Redman
We've got great examples of solid, high level, collaborative services available for survivors in the state. The judges just mentioned a few of them, for instance, that the organization here in Chattanooga, Home and Havens, we work very closely with, they help survivors get set up in, in their own apartment as far as helping with the furnishing of it and whatnot.

00;40;30;26 - 00;40;56;11
Jerry Redman
What we don't have is enough of that, and we certainly don't have enough be the adult victims or minor victims. We just simply don't have enough residential services. And that's that's possibly our greatest need, is take what we have, which is being done very well. Expanded, but certainly and, exponentially expand the number of beds that we have available for this type of data.

00;40;56;13 - 00;41;04;14
Host
Thank you, everyone, for joining us on this great discussion about the intersection between human trafficking and domestic violence and this edition of Tennessee Court Talk.

00;41;04;16 - 00;41;05;06
Judge Philyaw
Thanks for having us.

00;41;05;06 - 00;41;10;19
Judge Escobar
Thank you.