Ep. 17 General Sessions

General Sessions courts are often referred to as “the court of first resort,” “the people’s court,” or “small claims court.” In Tennessee, General Sessions courts have broad jurisdiction over civil claims and play a key role in almost every criminal prosecution in the state. Join Judges Lee Bussart (Marshall County), Lynda Jones (Davidson County), Alex McVeagh (Hamilton County) and Kee Bryant-McCormick (Sumner County) as they discuss the role of general sessions courts in the Tennessee judicial system. 

Produced by Nick Morgan

Transcript

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;21;05
Host
Welcome to Tennessee Court Talk. I'm your host, Barbara Pack. Today we are talking about General Sessions courts. This podcast is intended for the general public. My first guest is judge Lee Bossert from Marshall County. She became a general sessions judge in 2011. My second guest is Judge Linda Jones, a general sessions judge in Davidson County. She was first elected to the bench in 2014.

00;00;21;12 - 00;00;39;09
Host
My third guest is Judge Alex McVeagh, a General sessions judge in Hamilton County. He has been on the bench since 2017. And my first guest is Judge Key Bryant McCormick from Sumner County. She is our newest judge and was appointed to the bench in September of 2022. Welcome to everybody.

00;00;39;11 - 00;00;40;11
Judge Jones
Thanks for having us.

00;00;40;11 - 00;00;41;10
Judge Bussart
Glad to be here.

00;00;41;12 - 00;01;01;07
Host
So when I was researching for this podcast and general Sessions courts, I came up with lots of like interesting little descriptions like the People's Court and the Court of First resort. So I'll start with you, judge. What do you think of describe General Sessions courts for me? What is a General Sessions court?

00;01;01;09 - 00;01;23;24
Judge Bussart
Well, you know, it depends on who you ask. I remember once, and I was at a conference and, at the time, Chief Justice Wade on the Tennessee Supreme Court, said, thank you for what you do. And I laughed out loud because I want you're on the Supreme Court and I'm a general session judge. And I thought it was really, interesting that he would thank me.

00;01;23;24 - 00;02;06;01
Judge Bussart
And I literally laughed at his face and, he said, no, what you do is so important because sometimes you're the only encounter that people will ever have with our justice system. And if you don't represent us well, people lose faith in it. And it really, I think back to that. A lot of, you know, some people may say that, track courts and appellate courts and supreme courts are more important or more prestigious, but I think what we do in general Sessions Court is so important because we interact with the most of the general public, and that is the, best billboard that we can offer for our profession, is to

00;02;06;01 - 00;02;07;20
Judge Bussart
do a good job in these courts.

00;02;07;22 - 00;02;09;21
Host
Judge McVeagh how do you describe General Sessions Court?

00;02;09;28 - 00;02;29;24
Judge McVeagh
Certainly, I would echo what Judge Bussart just said. It, especially on the civil side, I do often refer to it as the people's court. I describe it to some as, think of Tennessee's Judge Judy. Court. We handle, small claims matters, but but actually, what some folks might not realize is actually Tennessee has the highest jurisdictional limit in our small claims court.

00;02;29;24 - 00;02;49;09
Judge McVeagh
So you can take a case on the civil side to general Sessions Court that it's worth all the way up to $25,000. So in addition to, obviously, your car wrecks and, your personal injury cases, you will have some pretty large construction disputes and, other contract and tort. So that's the civil side on the criminal side. Again, I think, the people's court is an apt term.

00;02;49;12 - 00;03;08;01
Judge McVeagh
We we deal with the vast, majority of the public who do interact with our criminal justice system. We handle mostly misdemeanors, but also handle, preliminary matters and felony. So, again, it's it's, I like to say the E-R of the court system, the high volume emergency room triage of our court system.

00;03;08;04 - 00;03;27;20
Host
Okay, so we've talked to we've set up some terms already that I'll go ahead and define. So civil when we talk about civil court that's usually as I like is a basic description is two people who are having some sort of disagreement, but it's a one person versus another person. And it could be a talk like I you pushed me and I got hurt and I've got a hospital bill.

00;03;27;20 - 00;03;47;24
Host
It could be some sort of property line question or is it Chancery? Or Chancery. Thank you. It's chancery. So it's one person against another person, and then criminal is where I think what most people think of this court. And that's going to be the state. So the state is filing charges against somebody. So let's first talk a little bit about civil docket first.

00;03;47;24 - 00;03;52;07
Host
So Judge Jones tell me about like a typical civil docket for you in Davidson County.

00;03;52;09 - 00;04;16;18
Judge Jones
So we have a lot of evictions of course, being the largest metropolitan area in the state. And so during the pandemic, we just had, a massive amount of activity going on. There were federal dollars coming to our metropolitan government. Then there were dollars coming from the state in order to try to keep people in their homes during evictions where landlords could get paid the rents.

00;04;16;20 - 00;04;32;22
Judge Jones
And so it's a pretty massive operation. It's not unusual like we're in conference this week, next week, the next civil docket probably have about 600 cases on it because we have such a volume. I consider at the mass retail court because we are such a large populated area.

00;04;32;25 - 00;04;50;11
Host
And I think evictions is a really good example. One of those issues where people might get confused about evictions, you think it's like it's a crime of not to pay your rent or your some, but it's not. I mean, it's the it's your landlord versus the tenant. So the state of Tennessee has nothing to do with this. There is no criminal charges being involved.

00;04;50;11 - 00;04;59;20
Host
This is a civil question between you and your landlord about what was due, when it was due, who met the terms of the lease. So it's really just a contract dispute. Eviction.

00;04;59;20 - 00;05;20;10
Judge Jones
Yeah, absolutely. And we have mediators that are there to also assist. If people don't have an attorney, we have legal aid on hand who's doing pro bono work for our tenants now. And we do hear contract disputes. We do hear car wrecks. We do hear small business disputes. And that's an interesting area that we get into because there's a lot of sole proprietors out there, people that aren't a big corporation.

00;05;20;10 - 00;05;27;10
Judge Jones
And they might just be Joe, the roofer guy who's having a dispute with a client. So we hear cases like that as well.

00;05;27;12 - 00;05;31;27
Host
Judge Bryant-McCormick, tell me about your typical civil docket in Sumter County.

00;05;31;29 - 00;06;08;21
Judge Bryant-McCormick
Very similar to what Judge Jones said, because we're kind of suburban of Nashville in terms of that. We have a lot of landlords in it. I have seen it, just an influx of this construction, essentially construction disputes. I feel like I'm an expert in laying tile at this point. And don't you don't want to hire me, though, but, because I've learned so much about construction issues from hearings, that we've had, and because our jurisdictional limits are so high that people often bring the construction issues to general sessions.

00;06;08;27 - 00;06;28;04
Judge Bryant-McCormick
So I've had just a big volume lately of construction disputes, of course, naturally, a lot of landlord tenant actions, but also some torts, like you said, some simple, car accidents or slip and falls or things that, have a value within the range of our jurisdiction limits.

00;06;28;07 - 00;06;39;22
Judge McVeagh
Oh, I'll add one. One thing I've learned is to never build your own swimming pool. That is that is one lesson I have taken from probably about 20 swimming pool construction defect cases.

00;06;39;25 - 00;07;02;25
Judge Jones
There we’re also a court of equity. And so we do have some rather broad, unusual jurisdiction that a lot of people don't realize. So for example, not only landlord tenant leases but car leases or rent to own furniture payment leases. We hear those types of cases of well, and we actually, not many cases like this come through.

00;07;02;25 - 00;07;13;04
Judge Jones
I've only heard one in the last eight years, but we have a right to do what's called a rest of the airplane. And so if someone comes in and wants to take somebody's airplane, they can come and get an injunction from us.

00;07;13;10 - 00;07;28;00
Host
Something we did not know. That probably doesn't come up that often. So if I'm in, if I'm in the Tennessee General session civil docket, and what happens if my case develops and I decide that it's going to be more than $25,000 worth of damage, what happens at that point?

00;07;28;04 - 00;07;55;20
Judge McVeagh
Typically at that point, there's a few things that can happen. One are that the parties could, asset the case be transferred to a different court. We, as judges could, decide that, that we don't have jurisdiction to hear a case. As much as I might want to hear the $100,000, driveway dispute. I if if if it is not going to be, worth $25,000 or below, and then I don't have the authority to hear that.

00;07;55;20 - 00;08;03;20
Judge McVeagh
So in those cases, I would send the case to what we know is Circuit Court of Chancery Court at a higher, trial level court than us.

00;08;03;23 - 00;08;13;17
Host
And Judge Bussart, how many people in your case, what if you don't have an attorney? So how many, what percentage of people in your court and on your civil docket come in without being represented by an attorney?

00;08;13;18 - 00;08;37;12
Judge Bussart
Most, I would say 98% are pro se. And it's a wonderful thing you get to educate folks on. All right. These are the rules. And this is how I want you to, stand. And this is how I want you to, conduct yourself. And so you really get to educate people every, every other Thursday, I take people to law school, and, you'd be amazed.

00;08;37;12 - 00;08;47;22
Judge Bussart
They do a terrific job because they have such a command of the facts that it's their story. They're more prepared than a lawyer ever could be.

00;08;47;24 - 00;08;59;11
Host
So I'll throw this out to anybody. So what's your best advice for pro litigants? If I'm going to come before your court and you could give me a five minute pep talk the day before, what would be your best advice?

00;08;59;11 - 00;09;25;16
Judge Jones
I can I would say, you know, be organized, bring your receipts. Please bring your receipts. If you're asking the court to give you money damages, the receipts are so important. If you have photographic evidence, bring the photos to court because the court needs to see the evidence and see the proof. A lot of people want to tell you their side of story, and they're wonderful storytellers. But unless you can see the cold, hard evidence you can't necessarily make a ruling.

00;09;25;23 - 00;09;45;25
Judge McVeagh
And I’ll add as well. I mean, a lot of folks don't realize that, when you go to court and if you don't bring with you appropriate documentation, but also appropriate witnesses, a lot of time with times we actually cannot consider certain evidence. So let's say you have so and so told me that the car was going to cost $500 to fix.

00;09;45;25 - 00;10;04;24
Judge McVeagh
Well, unless that person is there in court to tell me directly that this is the amount, you know, it would cost 500 to fix this.I can't consider. That's what we call hearsay. And so again, I think it's important that a lot of folks know not only to bring their documentation, but to bring anybody, that's important to, to your story.

00;10;04;26 - 00;10;16;22
Judge McVeagh
And also, any way we'll call them expert witness, that can kind of help us as judges understand, you know, things that are a little bit outside of everybody's, wheelhouse as far as our expertise.

00;10;16;29 - 00;10;37;24
Judge Bryant-McCormick
I would just like to echo would judge McVay said. Oftentimes I hear so many times, well, my mom is all I can go get. Mama. Well, we need mama there. So if you know mom is a witness, make sure mom comes with you because there's not the opportunity to then say, okay, I want to stop the middle of the trial and go find a witness and bring them back.

00;10;37;26 - 00;10;58;15
Judge Bryant-McCormick
It doesn't happen that way is for us, because we are such a volume people first resort, and all of that many elements that general Sessions is it's fast moving. So you kind of got one shot. So you want to make sure it's the best, as well as if you can bring copies of things to that would be even better.

00;10;58;15 - 00;11;13;04
Judge Bryant-McCormick
So be prepared. Have copies, bring your witnesses. And then breathe. Realize that we're not just going to nitpick you for every little thing we understand. So just be calm and and present your information.

00;11;13;06 - 00;11;49;15
Judge Bussart
I would say my advice to pro se litigants would be, what I think every good lawyer knows. Be nice to the clerk. When you walk in that courthouse. The most knowledgeable people are the staff. It's not the judge. It's not the the lawyers that, pop into that courthouse. You know, once a month, the staff's there day in and day out, and and if you have a question, don't be afraid to ask politely, but, I would before court, maybe try and go observe court and say, ask the clerk.

00;11;49;15 - 00;12;14;11
Judge Bussart
Hey, how will I know? Is my case going to get heard that day? And do I need to make sure my witnesses are here? Do I need to subpoena those? Can you help me with that? And if, of course, the clerk is not in a position to offer legal advice, but they can stay here, I'll look at the docket for you know, your case isn't going to be set for trial that day because we have 60 other cases. The the clerk can really give you good information to help you be well prepared.

00;12;14;11 - 00;12;31;18
Judge McVeagh
And, Barbara, if I could just add one, last point, I mean, General Sessions court and be in the People's court, the Judge Judy court, where you get to go kind of make your own case. It's almost also a double edged sword. On the one hand, we want there to be an avenue where there's a low cost, way that folks can kind of make their their case.

00;12;31;18 - 00;12;50;26
Judge McVeagh
At the same time, there are quite a few statistics concerning folks that are not represented by a, by a lawyer, that actually, you know, don't fare all that well in our core, particularly in the landlord tenant space. The numbers of folks that are ultimately, evicted, it's far less likely that you'll be evicted if you have a lawyer than if you don't.

00;12;50;26 - 00;13;15;19
Judge McVeagh
So I do think it's important that folks, that if you're considering even coming, general Sessions court, you do, in addition to your own research, you do. You might want to reach out to an attorney beforehand. Folks might also qualify for free legal assistance through legal aid. So I do think it's important that no matter how you know how great you are at commanding the facts of your case, there are still some things that legal representation will certainly help.

00;13;15;19 - 00;13;30;20
Judge McVeagh
And so, you know, I do encourage everybody that comes in this court. Have you talked to a lawyer? Have you considered a lawyer? And if they say no, then great. I mean, they're they're they're ready to go. But I do think it's something important to consider if you are contemplating taking a case to General Sessions court.

00;13;30;22 - 00;13;50;01
Host
Right. And I'll add, I mean, there are a lot of legal resources in Tennessee. If you qualify for them, there's legal aids in in all parts, all 95 counties have some sort of legal presence. There's free Tennessee legal answers. There's lots of lots of information out there. If you just can, get out a phone and Google free legal advice in Tennessee and you will get multiple resources.

00;13;50;01 - 00;14;13;02
Host
So we definitely encourage people to at least get some advice on whether they have a good case or what they should bring. And, and get sort of organized is what I heard is from all of you the message I think be organize when you if you're going to go to court yourself on a civil case organized bring copies, bring your receipts, bring the estimates for your car damage, and then bring any witnesses, with you have them lined up.

00;14;13;02 - 00;14;19;25
Host
So what? Let me switch gears a little bit here. What is mediation and how would you how do you use mediation in your court?

00;14;19;29 - 00;14;39;09
Judge Jones
So we have the Nashville conflict Resolution Center come to our court a couple of days a week. And people that don't have lawyers can choose to mediate their case rather than litigate in front of the judge. And that takes like, for example, next week's docket watch, which might have 600 civil cases that might peel off like 4 or 5 cases.

00;14;39;12 - 00;15;03;16
Judge Jones
And those people can resolve their case that day, reach an agreement where there's a mediator who listens to both sides of the story, and there's buy in, because both parties are coming up with a joint consensus. And that's worked well for us, because sometimes if everybody wants a hearing, I mean, 22 trials in one day can happen. And your case might not get her till 330 or 4:00 in the afternoon.

00;15;03;18 - 00;15;18;15
Judge Jones
In the meantime, you've missed a whole day of work. You've got to have somebody else pick up your kids after school. If you've got someone who can pick them up. So it's sometimes it's hard to spend an entire day in court, and we want to be mindful of that. So that's why we offer in CRC to do those services.

00;15;18;17 - 00;15;44;28
Judge Bryant-McCormick
One of the examples I always like to give litigants about mediation as a potential avenue to have their case resolved is I give this example probably weekly in court, and I'll say, okay, let's say two of you are fighting over a limit. And ultimately for the judge, based on sentence volume and even just the way they present the information, I might just cut the limit in half and plaintiff gets a half lemon and the defendant gets the other half.

00;15;45;00 - 00;16;05;27
Judge Bryant-McCormick
And ultimately both of you walk away. But what if you really needed the whole lemon? So both of you lost. Nobody won. Both of you lost. Both of you walked away with half a lemon. And you can't do anything with it because you needed a whole lemon. But in mediation, often they'll get to the root of the issue and figure out that, no, you really needed the juice.

00;16;05;27 - 00;16;23;03
Judge Bryant-McCormick
You needed the juice of a whole lemon, and you really needed the zest. You needed the zest of a whole lemon. So the mediator will help you craft that. On Monday at £0.08 and 8 a.m., you're going to squeeze all of the juice out of that lemon. And then at 12, you're going to transport that lemon to the defendant.

00;16;23;03 - 00;16;57;29
Judge Bryant-McCormick
And they're going to then take all of this. Well, both of you had the opportunity to walk away. And with what you needed, a whole lemon for your purpose. Where for us, sometimes as judges, you know, we'll end up cutting the lemon in half because we can't get to the meat or the history or the issue of what it is you really need versus a mediator helping you come up with the options, and sometimes even the laws and design for us to be able to say, you at eight and you're at noon, etc., you know, we're confined by the the constructs of the law.

00;16;57;29 - 00;17;05;08
Judge Bryant-McCormick
So mediation often is a good, good avenue to help people resolve issues where often they can walk away with a win win.

00;17;05;12 - 00;17;16;22
Host
So let's talk about criminal dockets a little bit. So criminal court again this is you're having charges filed against you. So talk about judge McVeagh, what kind of criminal cases you hear in general Sessions Court?

00;17;16;27 - 00;17;42;28
Judge McVeagh
Certainly again that the same theme, it's the high volume. Your people's court. We hear everything from, a traffic citation on an interstate, all the way up to a, homicide. We would hear the preliminary hearing on, on on a homicide. So. So it is, you know, safe to say that I do never, I never know what my day is going to look like when I step on that bench.

00;17;42;28 - 00;18;05;24
Judge McVeagh
It's a, a wide variety of issues we deal with, but but again, primarily, we are allowed to sentence and preside over. We have what's called jurisdiction over all misdemeanors and a misdemeanor. Is a case that, if you were convicted, carries up to 11 months and 29 days in custody. Anything over that a year and above is what's known as a felony, here in Tennessee.

00;18;05;24 - 00;18;36;03
Judge McVeagh
And there's various degrees and in classes, but but we deal primarily with misdemeanors. But in addition to the 100, drug, DUI, theft cases I might hear in a given day, we'll also have those handful of felonies that we are hearing, right, right. When a crime is committed. So, our days, in addition to being, you know, kind of a very high volume and a large docket, we can also have quite emotional courtrooms as well.

00;18;36;05 - 00;19;04;13
Judge McVeagh
We are the first stop often, for a family that might have just lost a loved one to a, horrific, you know, crime. They're in that courtroom that day. News cameras, you know, victims, witnesses. All all there, to to, hear that preliminary case? Preliminary matter in front of us. And so it can be, you know, quite emotional, quite, quite a stressful, a court appearance.

00;19;04;13 - 00;19;08;15
Judge McVeagh
And again, every day is, something new, at least in our docket in Chattanooga.

00;19;08;18 - 00;19;30;19
Host
Right. So I, I did go to law school, and I will admit, when I first came, to Tennessee, I'm not a native Tennessean. And I first started taking this job, I was just baffled, I will say, when I saw it, I think it was a very high profile crime that was committed when I first started. And I was like, we're in General Sessions court right now.

00;19;30;19 - 00;19;49;05
Host
I'm so entirely confused. So let's talk about that a little more. So it's really every crime in Tennessee, no matter how horrific and how unless it's a federal crime. But we'll say all the state crimes, all of the state crimes, no matter what the crime is, it starts in general sessions court. So sort of explain that process.

00;19;49;12 - 00;19;57;25
Host
What what's going on initially before we and when we're going to end up in state criminal court. But what what's the role of General Sessions in like a murder case.

00;19;57;29 - 00;20;17;28
Judge Jones
So you're starting with a jail docket. Basically you're arrested, you go to jail and you appear on the jail docket, and in Davidson County, you have a right to be in front of someone talking about your bail within 24 to 48 hours of being picked up. So at that point in time, you also have a right to know what you're being accused of and what you're being charged with.

00;20;17;28 - 00;20;40;16
Judge Jones
It might not be a homicide, it might be an aggravated robbery. And that gives an opportunity for you to get a lawyer right away. And the state, if they're going to bring evidence against you, to start bringing forth some of that evidence. So you also have a right to a preliminary hearing. We hold our preliminary hearings within 15 days. And that's why all the felony serious cases start in General Sessions court as well.

00;20;40;19 - 00;20;47;06
Host
And then what's going to be the next step? But then you're going to get an initial arraignment here and General Sessions Court as well.

00;20;47;08 - 00;21;04;19
Judge Bussart
And then Judge Jones, referred to a preliminary hearing. If at the preliminary hearing, there's probable cause to proceed, the case is bound over to the grand jury, and then it would be, presented to the grand jury and arraigned in circuit court.

00;21;04;22 - 00;21;14;19
Host
And then move forward a circuit court. So really, everybody. Oh, listen to this. Attorneys do this. Everybody starts in General Sessions court until we are bound over by the grand jury.

00;21;14;25 - 00;21;36;14
Judge Bussart
Unless it's a direct presentment to the grand jury. And I've seen a few more of those recently, in sensitive cases where they involve maybe, a local government issue, they, they start it at a direct presentment. And, I've seen a few more of those recently.

00;21;36;17 - 00;22;00;04
Judge Bryant-McCormick
I used to see a lot of white collar crimes that are typically, and that's going to be like your upper level embezzlement. Those cases are often direct presentment cases as well, where the investigation element of it has taken quite a bit. They have enough evidence to go forward. And so they ultimately go through it for a direct presenting. But most cases definitely start in general sessions.

00;22;00;04 - 00;22;21;20
Judge McVeagh
And then when we say direct presentment, we're referring to kind of bypassing General Sessions court. But but it is more rare. And and ultimately, if we find after that preliminary hearing that there's probable cause, we're not we're not convicting a defendant, we're not holding a trial right there in that hearing. We're just trying to make sure there's enough evidence that we believe the case should proceed.

00;22;21;23 - 00;22;40;17
Judge McVeagh
You know, really important, particularly if a defendant is going to remain in custody for possibly years till his trial or her child might occur, it's really important to have another set of eyes in various stages of our criminal justice system. If we decide there's enough evidence, we send the case on, bind it over to the grand jury and again, the grand juries.

00;22;40;25 - 00;23;02;27
Judge McVeagh
What what listeners might, think of as, you know, you often, think of a jury deciding a case at the end of a trial, a petite jury and a grand jury is, again, members of your community, your peers that are together deciding another set of eyes, deciding whether there's enough evidence on the front end for a case to proceed to that jury trial.

00;23;02;29 - 00;23;25;01
Judge McVeagh
So when we're we're referring to those terms that, that that's what we mean. But but again, the vast majority of these do go through General Sessions court and, and, and I view our court as kind of another check and balance on the system. At various stages in Tennessee, there are quite a few different eyes and different hearings and different rights that accused have, along the way all the way to your trial.

00;23;25;04 - 00;23;31;25
Host
And then also you're you signing a lot of, search warrants at the at the general sessions level, that is.

00;23;31;25 - 00;23;32;29
Judge Jones
Yes, yes.

00;23;32;29 - 00;23;33;14
Judge Bryant-McCormick
Yes.

00;23;33;14 - 00;23;45;07
Host
A lot. And shaking their heads. Yes. So a lot of search warrants even before we get to the point of arresting people, your general sessions judges are very involved with weighing whether a search warrant should be signed.

00;23;45;10 - 00;24;12;04
Judge McVeagh
Yes, definitely. So some some jurisdictions are, lucky enough to also have judicial commissioners or magistrates that oftentimes have offices actually at, at a particular, jail or workhouse or, also at the courthouse. But, but others, particularly in more rural jurisdictions, it really is up to the general sessions judge to be that person, who is, you know, signing search warrants, who is setting bail, and, you know, being very involved, even at that stage of the process.

00;24;12;04 - 00;24;21;22
Host
So what kind of criminal cases stay in general Sessions court? So we've kind of talked about the ones that get bound over for the grand jury. What about the ones and misdemeanors and felonies up to a certain level. Yeah.

00;24;21;22 - 00;24;51;16
Judge Jones
Anything that's punishable by less than 11 months and 29 days in jail. So you're going to have an assault, you're going to have simple possession. You're going to have drug paraphernalia, you're going to have criminal trespass. You're going to have DUI cases, multiple DUI cases, actually. So it can be second or third, that sort of thing. Anything that is smaller in nature, domestic violence though, however, is huge in nature. But it is also considered a misdemeanor.

00;24;51;19 - 00;24;56;17
Host
How do you process those types of cases, criminal cases? How are they different from a typical civil docket?

00;24;56;23 - 00;25;11;18
Judge Jones
I think you just have more witnesses. You've got more attorneys involved on the criminal side. You've got the sheriff involved, you've got a lot of moving pieces and parts. So I think the criminal dockets can be a little more intense and more people involved.

00;25;11;22 - 00;25;31;22
Judge Bryant-McCormick
The biggest part is you have the district attorney's office involved. And so that where in a civil case, you just might have two individuals suing each other. Of course, as you explained earlier, you have the state of Tennessee represented by the district attorney's office that's involved. So, you know, you have at least a lawyer on one side for most cases.

00;25;31;24 - 00;25;46;12
Judge Bryant-McCormick
Of course, sometimes we deal with pro se litigants. And in the criminal world as well. But oftentimes the district attorney's office is involved as well as the public defender's office is involved. So that also, I think helps expedite cases as well.

00;25;46;14 - 00;26;23;28
Judge McVeagh
And I'll add them in in Hamilton County, Chattanooga, the vast majority of our 60,000 criminal cases in any given year or handled by what we call plea agreement, so that that's again, a little bit it's it's almost like the mediated civil agreement, but but ultimately, it's an agreement that is reached between the prosecutor, the district attorney, the state of Tennessee, and the defendant, either the defendant, if he's representing his or herself, which really don't recommend criminal court, we can go into that, but but, or, that defendant's attorney, it's an agreement that they reached, and then they present it to us as judges, and we decide whether we

00;26;23;28 - 00;26;38;19
Judge McVeagh
accept or reject that plea agreement. And most plea agreements are accepted if they're reasonable. And, and and I think that, you know, but but that certainly is a difference. The vast majority of our, our very large dockets are handled by plea agreement.

00;26;38;26 - 00;26;43;25
Host
And what at what point am I do I have a right to an attorney in criminal court.

00;26;43;27 - 00;27;07;03
Judge Bussart
When you're in jeopardy for losing your freedom? So any crime you could request, an attorney to be appointed for you if you can't afford one. And where, as in civil court, I'd say 98% of my folks are pro se, which means representing themselves. It's very rare to represent yourself for me in criminal court because you have access to a court appointed attorney.

00;27;07;06 - 00;27;40;17
Judge Bussart
And so if you are indigent, your attorney is appointed for you. I also, I don't know, I'm one of the rural judges here. I'm in a smaller town. And so I'll have sometimes murders and speeding offenses on the same docket. And so, you know, if you're there for traffic offense or something that is more or less minor, you may not get an attorney, but most of the time, a court appointed public defender or a private appointed attorney is available to you.

00;27;40;23 - 00;27;46;25
Host
So if, if there's, if there's a possibility that the sentence will be jail time, then I have the right to an.

00;27;46;25 - 00;28;05;29
Judge Bussart
Attorney if it affects any constitutional right. So your freedom, your children, if you are there because, I also have jurisdiction for juvenile court, and I have to appoint an attorney any time. It may mean that I'm taking someone's child from them because they have a constitutional right to parent.

00;28;06;02 - 00;28;08;11
Host
So the sentencing talked about 11 months and.

00;28;08;13 - 00;28;09;03
Judge Jones
29 days.

00;28;09;04 - 00;28;28;22
Host
29 days. So you can prove you can give a sentence up to 11 months, 29 days. You can also do fines. But there also sometimes are alternative sentencing things like drug courts and special recovery courts. So I know judge McVeagh you have one. So tell me a little bit about how you use of how you would use a drug court in general sessions. What is it and how do you use it.

00;28;28;22 - 00;28;48;22
Judge McVeagh
Certainly. You know in, in sentencing, you know, there are various philosophies on, on why we sentence somebody a certain way. One is obviously to punish somebody. One might be, to make somebody else whole if if somebody breaks your car. But then I want the other person to, to repay, you know, the the damage to that car.

00;28;48;24 - 00;29;18;09
Judge McVeagh
But but one might also be to help rehabilitate a person so that they are not continuing to be in and out of our courts. A lot of these folks that we're talking about today in our courts have been in our courts hundreds of times. These are these are repeat offenders. And the other thing we've kind of recognized with a lot of these individuals, or that, most, if not all of them are suffering from some sort of substance use disorder or mental health issue or both.

00;29;18;12 - 00;29;39;12
Judge McVeagh
And, what we began to see, I think first was in 1989 and in Miami, the first, drug recovery court was started to address the crack cocaine epidemic that was gripping the Miami, but also the nation. And so since 89, we've had quite a bit of research across the country to about some of these, what we call treatment courts or recovery courts.

00;29;39;15 - 00;30;08;08
Judge McVeagh
What if we attempted to use the court system, in a way to, to supervise, but also address some of these underlying issues, mental health issues, substance use issues to try to help change some of this criminal and addictive thinking and behavior, address some of the root causes while providing the supervision that's needed. Help folks, get a higher education degree, keep a job, have case managers to work on different sorts of things, but also having treatment available to these to these folks.

00;30;08;08 - 00;30;31;24
Judge McVeagh
So, the idea of drug courts and mental health courts and veterans courts, DUI courts, we even have a family, drug, sex trafficking court, in, in Tennessee. The idea of of of these sorts of, innovative, you know, treatment courts, heavy supervision, heavy treatment courts has, has proven quite successful, not only in Tennessee but across the country.

00;30;31;24 - 00;30;55;23
Judge McVeagh
So, there are, I believe, 82, treatment courts in Tennessee, I think 50 drug courts, you know, nine mental health courts. And and with these, these courts all kind of operate under the same best practices, the same models. But but in a nutshell, it involves, heavy supervision, but also heavy substance use and mental health treatment. While they are progressing, through the probationary sentence.

00;30;55;23 - 00;31;06;16
Host
So if you hear someone, you know, he's been sentenced and they're in there going to recovery court, what would be your response to someone who's saying like, that's really easy. And they're like, getting off?

00;31;06;17 - 00;31;09;07
Judge McVeagh
Oh no, no, no, no.

00;31;09;09 - 00;31;31;00
Judge Bryant-McCormick
That's the probably biggest erroneous statement ever. For me, I have mental health court and for individuals to go go through mental health court for me, or let me just take the average probation or the average probation person pretty much meets with their probation officer once a month that on on average and I don't know if it's the same way for each county, but typically it's about once a month.

00;31;31;08 - 00;31;58;23
Judge Bryant-McCormick
So let's say you have a 11 months and 29 day sentence. Or are you a multiple 11 months and 29 day sentences because you have multiple offenses? So let's say you haven't. We'll just take one for easy math. 1129 that's pretty much 12 months. So you might meet your probation officer 12 times for mental health court. They meet with me every week, as well as with probation or do drug screenings twice a week in addition to that.

00;31;58;27 - 00;32;21;02
Judge Bryant-McCormick
So my average mental health court participant will have met with someone 12 times in one month. So the person who just had standard probation, they've met with the person 12 times in one month versus 12 times in a whole year. And usually those programs on and off for us in the adult court, usually they're in for greater than a year.

00;32;21;05 - 00;32;29;09
Judge Bryant-McCormick
So that program is extremely intense and far more difficult than just standard probation.

00;32;29;09 - 00;32;53;01
Judge McVeagh
Or just, sitting even in custody. A lot of these folks, you think there's not, you know, drugs and, in, in our, some of our, our prisons and workhouses that, you know, you're, you're you're wrong. I mean, so some of our, the individuals I know, some of my drug court participants, they actually would far prefer to spend a weekend sanctioned in custody as opposed to doing three days of community service on the side of the road.

00;32;53;01 - 00;33;15;00
Judge McVeagh
So again, it's just it's thinking outside the box. But but it certainly is is is not an easy program. And I make sure everyone knows that up front. I mean, it is it is one of the most difficult things that this particular defendant will ever do. And it should be that way. I mean, these are folks, you know, we're not talking about somebody that can just go to a 28 day stint in inpatient and be fine.

00;33;15;00 - 00;33;31;27
Judge McVeagh
I mean, these are people that are very, very high risk of re-offending in a high need of treatment. So these are unlike, say, the worst of the worst. But these are our repeat offenders. These are folks that nothing else has worked. And if we put them in custody, they're going to get out and they're going to be right back there terrorizing our streets and being right back in our court.

00;33;31;27 - 00;33;50;25
Judge McVeagh
So we have to try something else. And so we're drug court. Mental health court. Does I mean, we in addition to meeting with their case manager that many times a week, I mean, they're actually in Chattanooga, at least in four different days of intense outpatient treatment. We have in-house treatment. I mean, they're meeting in groups 4 or 5 days a week early on in the program.

00;33;50;25 - 00;34;13;12
Judge McVeagh
I mean, it is they're they're employed within two weeks. They have to be employed within two weeks of getting out of custody. I mean, these are people that haven't held jobs in years, you know? And so, again, it's a very strenuous. But in the end, if you graduate from one of these programs, your chance of remaining successful being taxpaying, productive members of society is quite high, and your chance to be back in the system goes down exponentially.

00;34;13;14 - 00;34;35;27
Host
Great. So last topic I wanted to touch on was domestic violence cases, because they are a little bit of a mix between criminal court and civil courts. Obviously, domestic violence can be criminal when we have a state pressing charges. And if that's happening, kind of what should on the criminal end, should victims expect or should anyone expect in a typical domestic violence case on the criminal side?

00;34;36;02 - 00;34;59;14
Judge Jones
So first step is in order of protection. And that's the civil side of things where you can ask for temporary restraining order and then be granted a permanent restraining order. And then in Davidson County, we're very, very fortunate. We have the Jane Crow Advocacy Center, where victims of an alleged victims of domestic violence are assigned someone to kind of walk them through the process, and they're kept in a separate part of the courthouse.

00;34;59;17 - 00;35;22;08
Judge Jones
So they're not sitting right next to the person that may have beaten them or threatened them with a gun the night before. And that docket is separate from the other dockets in Davidson County. And I know some of the rural counties don't have the luxury of doing that. Those are the tough, tough cases. And, I look to I look up to my rural colleagues a lot because they have much more to manage.

00;35;22;10 - 00;35;50;16
Judge Bussart
Linda, I really appreciate you saying that, as always, but I, I'll say, when I first started on the bench, we did not have an advocacy center. We have the haven of hope that operates in our jurisdiction. And you're absolutely right. It makes such a difference. Because as a judge, you're neutral and you can't step in to advocate for this person who, has, distinct power imbalance and can't feel, heard and free in that courtroom.

00;35;50;16 - 00;36;03;17
Judge Bussart
And so you really you've got to have someone else. It can't be the judge to, to stand up for that person. And so, these advocacy centers are so important to having true access to justice.

00;36;03;20 - 00;36;14;09
Host
Okay. So what does a victim for the initial order of protection, which is going to be civil docket? I don't know if it matters to them, but just so they understand the process. So we're getting this order of protection. What does the victim need to do.

00;36;14;11 - 00;36;36;26
Judge Bussart
It for in Marshall County? They would go to the Haven of Hope and they help them fill out the form. It's a pretty simple form, so you can do it yourself. I know in some jurisdictions they do that, we, we try and get them, support so that, that advocate can tell them about other therapy resources and creating a safety plan while they're getting that, paperwork done.

00;36;36;28 - 00;36;55;00
Judge Bussart
Also, it's possible that a police officer can file on a person's behalf, and I've seen that happen before, where a person, isn't sure they want an order of protection, but the police are sure because they've been out there a few times. And so, a police officer also can, make that petition on their behalf.

00;36;55;00 - 00;37;17;01
Judge Bryant-McCormick
We start essentially, usually with the person filling out or completing a petition on their own, not through an advocacy center. Oftentimes, you know, we don't have that level of intervention. They often are sitting in the same courtroom with the person with the offender, and they usually just go and complete the petition for the order protection on their own.

00;37;17;03 - 00;37;47;09
Judge Bryant-McCormick
When there are corresponding criminal charges. We try to link those cases so that they're heard almost at the same time to reduce the issues, the constitutional issues for the defendant, of course, and their self-incrimination issue, but also to reduce the time that the victim has to continue to come to court. So we try to link those up, but usually it starts with the petition on their own, and we try to expeditiously or quickly get those hurt.

00;37;47;15 - 00;37;49;13
Host
And what is an order of protection supposed to do?

00;37;49;15 - 00;37;57;19
Judge Jones
It bars the alleged offender from coming within contact of the woman or man and or children. If there's a.

00;37;57;19 - 00;38;03;20
Host
Fear and there is the time limited or order protections for X amount of days, or is it forever like.

00;38;03;23 - 00;38;19;16
Judge Jones
You get a temporary one that's good until your first hearing, and then you can file for a second one that's good for up to a year. And then the Tennessee legislature a few years ago actually passed a lifetime, piece of legislation, which I have not seen yet, but I know other judges have seen those.

00;38;19;18 - 00;38;39;29
Judge McVeagh
And all that too. But we were mentioning kind of the civil order protection. But but quite often there's a corresponding criminal case. So an officer and a magistrate sworn out a warrant, and there's been an arrest. And so sometimes you'll actually have the, circumstance where you kind of have these dual proceedings, you know, one on the civil side, one on the criminal side.

00;38;40;01 - 00;39;10;24
Judge McVeagh
And, and also, even if there's not a civil order of protection that sort, but there's just a pending criminal case, what we can do as, as judges is actually impose a criminal. No contact kind of order of protection as a condition of that defendant's bail. So if even if there is not this separate, civil order of protection, we can also or judicial commissioner can actually say, know, while this case is pending, this defendant cannot go anywhere near, you know, this person's house if you if you live together beforehand, you know, tough you have to live somewhere else.

00;39;10;24 - 00;39;18;02
Judge McVeagh
If you need to get belongings, you have to get law enforcement to help you get them. But, but but that can also be implemented as a condition of a defendant's bail as well.

00;39;18;08 - 00;39;54;02
Judge Bryant-McCormick
I find that the most of my cases, the domestic cases, do not have an order of protection file with them. So oftentimes we're on their civil on the criminal track only. And and usually a no contact order is is issued in the midst of that. So the differences for the no contact order and the criminal side of things that ultimately could be a violation of probation or a violation of the sentence and calls their criminal case to come back, versus just if the person just sometimes just gets the order protection without the corresponding criminal case, then usually that there's an arrest if there's a violation and that triggers in charge.

00;39;54;02 - 00;39;58;20
Host
And what happens if I have a no contact order or an order of protection and there is contact, you.

00;39;58;20 - 00;40;25;11
Judge McVeagh
Can actually be charged. In addition to potentially violating your bail, you could actually be charged with a whole separate, distinct offense of the violation of a no contact order is actually a separate criminal statute of criminal violation. Now. So in addition to an underlying domestic assault charge, you could then have an additional potential 11 months, 29 day sentence, on top of a domestic conviction, for simply violating that no contact order.

00;40;25;14 - 00;40;50;00
Judge McVeagh
You know, even if even if the a, you know, a victim were to reach out to the defendant and the defendant responds, I mean, the defendant could be found in violation of that no contact order because they are not to have any contact with that victim. So, so, you know, we've been talking about on the victim side, but if if you happen to be a defendant in this situation, a no contact order means a no contact orders, a no contact order, I mean, zero contact.

00;40;50;00 - 00;40;59;28
Judge McVeagh
And we're talking about Facebook contact, Instagram contact. Having somebody else go contact this victim. No contact means no contact. If there is you're going to get arrested again.

00;41;00;02 - 00;41;15;04
Host
And so if you're a victim then the answer is you need to be calling the police. If there is contact. Yes. If they're posting in my Facebook comments or Instagram or whatever, then you're calling the police to say and you're saying, I have a no contact order or order of protection and the police should take it from there.

00;41;15;07 - 00;41;16;02
Host
Yes, correct.

00;41;16;05 - 00;41;47;20
Judge Bussart
I think there are some people with the misconception that every disagreement is an order protection. And, I've had a few folks that, maybe had a, live in relationship that soured. And rather than go through an eviction, they're like, I can get a cheap eviction if I just go get an order of protection. And or, you know, we had a fight and my girlfriend said some really ugly things to me, and it hurt my feelings.

00;41;47;20 - 00;42;01;25
Judge Bussart
And I wanted order protection. And I want people to always feel like they can come to the courthouse and ask. But I do want people to understand it's a pretty high burden to say I'm an immediate risk of of safety, risk of harm here.

00;42;01;28 - 00;42;21;16
Judge Bryant-McCormick
So there are such situations. Exactly. Just to piggyback on that, that sometimes the temporary isn't issued. So sometimes that your order protection, you have to actually just have the hearing on the actual order protection. Sometimes you don't get the temporary order. So in especially in those cases where there doesn't appear to be an immediate risk of harm.

00;42;21;18 - 00;42;42;05
Host
If I'm the person requesting the order of protection, you know, what do I need to do? Is it similar to what we've said earlier, where you need to bring photos and bring the Facebook comments and be ready to tell your story, or just not, you're just not going to show up to court and say, I want to order protection. Expect to get it. So how should you prepare if you're the one requesting it?

00;42;42;08 - 00;43;02;12
Judge Bryant-McCormick
Same concern. Just basically what you said I've had I had one just last week. The lady actually had a camera in her house and so she brought the video footage from the camera that she had in her house. She also had text message history. She had her social media information as well. And so she came and brought all of her information.

00;43;02;12 - 00;43;09;01
Judge Bryant-McCormick
And she didn't have a lawyer, but she presented all of the information and ultimately was able to prove her case.

00;43;09;01 - 00;43;12;12
Host
And what if you have one and you don't want it anymore?

00;43;12;14 - 00;43;35;00
Judge McVeagh
That's that's a it's it's a it's it's very common. It's also I mean, it's also, you know, we as judges get the benefit of, of getting to go to all these great trainings where we hear about the statistics and the research that is out there and how so often, folks end up changing their mind and deciding they don't want to prosecute that, go back to the abusers.

00;43;35;00 - 00;44;05;03
Judge McVeagh
And there's so much research out there that that says that it only gets worse. And so it it is it is tough as a judge, obviously, again, we're we're the neutral. Ultimately, if the state decides they don't want to prosecute anymore, then oftentimes we have no choice but to potentially dismiss the case. But but it also is possible that the state still might decide to prosecute a defendant if there's other evidence and, you know, and other witnesses they can call or even the victim themselves, you know, it might not be up to the victim, is my point.

00;44;05;03 - 00;44;24;01
Judge McVeagh
I mean, the state's going to ultimately decide the state of Tennessee, the prosecution, if they want to continue to prosecute this defendant regardless of what the victim might, might, say. But what I would encourage is all these great advocacy centers out there. I mean, these are the professionals, you know, the partnership and Chattanooga and Family Justice Center.

00;44;24;06 - 00;44;53;20
Judge McVeagh
I mean, I would just implore anybody that's been a victim of domestic assault just to seek help and to talk to the professionals that can help educate them about this cycle and about their options. And so many times, folks feel like they have no other choice but to go back to the abuser. And, and and, you know, again, I just, you know, because we can't really do that in court, but I just would certainly hope to advocate for folks getting the the necessary information that can help them make the best decision for themselves.

00;44;53;24 - 00;45;16;24
Judge Bryant-McCormick
And that's usually on the criminal side in terms of when the state's involved. But I see it on the, the just the civil side with the strictly the order protection docket. It's the order protection. And I had one recently where the hearing lasted us like four hours. And ultimately the order protection was granted. And then within a month, the person seeking the order protection came in and filed a motion to dismiss the order protection.

00;45;16;27 - 00;45;42;15
Judge Bryant-McCormick
And, you know, in I always ask why I always ask. They have to present their motion and ultimately show why that order protection should be dismissed, especially in that one where we had a four hour hearing in where you presented how horrible this person was. Now, why all of a sudden there's this change of heart. And so usually that person can file a motion to have that order order protection dismissed.

00;45;42;17 - 00;45;47;25
Judge Bryant-McCormick
And usually we'll have to go and prove to the judge, why does why they need that order dismissed.

00;45;47;26 - 00;46;13;27
Judge Bussart
When that happens, almost always the parties will apologize to me. They'll say, I'm so sorry I wasted your time, and I stop them. I try to say things may change. If they do, I'll tell you statistically, that people in a domestic violent relationship will leave seven times on average. So if you find yourself in this position again, know that I am not mad at you and this courthouse is always open to you.

00;46;14;00 - 00;46;32;07
Judge Bussart
You did not waste my time. This is my job. And I'm glad and honored to do it. And so I think it's important for us as judges to to recognize that it may have just been a blip in their relationship, and maybe they are going to go on and have no other hiccups, but, to leave that door open to them and, and inform them.

00;46;32;07 - 00;46;47;05
Judge Bussart
Statistically, people don't leave a domestic violent relationship one time. They don't. And so, and to give them the resources, say, if you need help, this is who you reach out to. This courthouse is always open to you. So that's where I hope to handle it.

00;46;47;08 - 00;46;53;02
Host
That's a really good point. Anybody have any last advice for any general sessions?

00;46;53;02 - 00;47;14;25
Judge Jones
I don't know about advice, but the one area we didn't touch on were the mental health committal hearings. So we hear involuntary commitments. And, those are interesting cases. And, we do have a growing mentally ill population post-Covid. There are a lot of people out there with who are isolated, no family members. And, so life's been a little bit hard for some people.

00;47;14;27 - 00;47;30;01
Judge Jones
So, just know that the courts are there. They care. They try to help people when they can. They do hold people accountable when necessary. And we're here to serve people. So, you know, utilize us. Come in. Don't be afraid of the judge. Just tell the judge your story.

00;47;30;06 - 00;47;34;01
Host
So how does the how do mental commitment hearings start?

00;47;34;03 - 00;47;57;00
Judge Jones
Usually, if someone has threatened suicide or homicide, a family member will get frightened and call the police. Then there is a committal process that starts where two doctors certify. And then in our jurisdiction in Davidson County, we have Knight Court commissioners who will issue the preliminary orders. But every person who's involuntarily committed has a right to a hearing within 72 hours.

00;47;57;03 - 00;48;14;18
Judge Jones
And they can say, yes, I want to work with the doctors and get medicated and stable and then try to find a place to live in two weeks, or they'll come and have a hearing and say, no, I'm really not mentally ill. I want to be let out. I just blew up for no reason. And, so we have those hearings regularly every week.

00;48;14;25 - 00;48;30;18
Judge McVeagh
And then we then step in and decide, you know, is this person a danger to themselves or others? And is this hospital the least restrictive place they could be? Treat it right now. And if we say yes to those, two things, and then I can order that person to remain in the hospital for up to 15 days.

00;48;30;18 - 00;48;49;18
Judge McVeagh
So it's an extraordinary power. But but again, it's, it's important that, that, that everybody in our state have, the opportunities to have, you know, make sure their constitutional rights are not being violated and have the opportunity for a hearing. And also, in those situations, we often, most of the time, I appoint them an attorney as well.

00;48;49;18 - 00;49;13;20
Judge McVeagh
So again, just, you know, the great thing about, I think is, as you probably learned from listening to us today, if you want to go into general Sessions practice, you it's a good place. If you you love the Wild West, you love not necessarily knowing what what your day is going to, going to look like. But what we do is very, very important, in a lot of folks and their important constitutional rights at at risk.

00;49;13;20 - 00;49;37;02
Judge McVeagh
And so we understand how important our job is. And I think all of us, go into every single day, knowing that the person we interact with, even if we have a 100 other people behind them, this is the most important day of their life, potentially. And so we need to make sure that we are treating them with the respect and given them, you know, the resources and their day in court that they deserve.

00;49;37;04 - 00;49;56;09
Judge Bryant-McCormick
I think the only other thing I want to just add to that is just to clarify a little bit on the sentencing, while 11 months and 29 days is the ceiling of an offense, it's just of that offense. So if you're charged with domestic assault, simple possession and drug paraphernalia, don't think that your maximum exposure is 11 months or 29 days.

00;49;56;09 - 00;50;20;00
Judge Bryant-McCormick
It is on each of those offenses. So knowing that even for sessions is life changing is not this that could change your life for 11 months and 29 days. That could change your life for 311 months and 29 day sentences. So I think that's the other part, is realizing that while each offense is a misdemeanor, they all have their own individual, issues that could come with it as well.

00;50;20;07 - 00;50;42;25
Judge Bryant-McCormick
And I think that what was I think said earlier from my esteemed colleague from Marshall County here, you know, we realize and oftentimes this is everybody's first time entering the justice system are dealing with it. And I know I take that very seriously. And, you know, with compassion and justice. So for me, I know that we make a big difference on how they see the court.

00;50;42;25 - 00;51;03;02
Judge Bryant-McCormick
And and so I look at each case in that in that way. And I definitely encourage new lawyers to come to General Sessions. That is definitely where sometimes it feels like baptism by fire, but you get the best experience in sessions that will guide you throughout your your legal career.

00;51;03;02 - 00;51;18;19
Judge McVeagh
And all that. In addition to lawyers, I actually let high schoolers come sit up on the bench with me. So if you're listening to this and you have, you know, somebody that's in 11th or 12th grade or college or in law school and they kind of want to see that court side from that system. Reach out to your local general sessions judge and see if it's there.

00;51;18;19 - 00;51;23;25
Judge McVeagh
Any way they could shadow you, for a day to kind of see that, that side of it. Because I love heaven.

00;51;24;01 - 00;51;41;19
Judge Jones
I offer summer internships. Last summer I had nine interns, all high school students. And, you know, I want as many people to go. I think the law is a wonderful, noble career. And so I want to encourage as many young people as I can to pursue it, because it is is just a great way to serve people.

00;51;41;21 - 00;52;01;04
Judge Bussart
I agree, I think it's wonderful the opportunities you'll have. I'm going to consider implementing some of those, but I have a teen court, and some just like, drug court is often called recovery court. That's the same thing. Teen court is also often called youth court. So if you have one of those in your area, it is a great experience.

00;52;01;07 - 00;52;08;27
Judge Bussart
Even if you're not interested in being a lawyer or in law enforcement, it is a great experience to be a better citizen.

00;52;09;00 - 00;52;27;20
Host
And all this. All Tennessee courts are open. They are open to the public. General sessions courts are county level courts. So there are 95 counties. There are 95 general sessions court systems, sometimes more than one in a county. But every county has a general sessions court. So your county does. And let's not forget, you are all elected.

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Host
So you might initially be appointed, by a county mayor or county commission, but then you are on the ballot. So the jurors are elected. You can vote for your county or not vote for your county general sessions attorneys. You'll see their signs out. We just did that in August of 2022. You saw a lot of campaign signs for General Sessions judges.

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Host
And you'll see that again, in the coming year. So that is obviously another way that citizens can get involved.

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Judge Bryant-McCormick
Thank you so much for him.

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Host
You're welcome. Thank you. And thank you for joining us for this edition of Tennessee Court Talk.