Ep. 56 Before The Bench: Judge David Veile

Judge David Veile (21st District Circuit Court) brings a unique perspective to the bench as both a former police officer and criminal defense attorney. In this episode of TN Court Talk, Judge Veile takes us along for his career journey and why he thinks his experience in law enforcement helps him as a judge. 

Transcript

00;00;02;28 - 00;00;14;15
Host
As we continue our Before the Bench series on Tennessee Court Talk, we have the pleasure of now sitting with Judge David Veile of the 21st Judicial District that encompasses Williamson County. Judge Veile. Welcome to Tennessee Court Talk.

00;00;14;18 - 00;00;16;11
Judge Veile
Thank you very much. Glad to be here.

00;00;16;13 - 00;00;22;29
Host
I want to start with something that I find interesting is when judges have careers before going to law school. Tell me about how your career started.

00;00;23;00 - 00;00;44;01
Judge Veile
My legal career actually started in high school, and, I attended high school in downtown Nashville and needed an after school job. And some friends from church had a law firm in Nashville and hired me to be a runner. And that was my first opportunity to see how the law can really help people as a, as a, as a force for good.

00;00;44;04 - 00;01;11;15
Judge Veile
And that's where the seed was planted to go into law. When I graduated from undergrad, I was not in a position to go to law school at that time. And I saw that the Metro Police Department in Nashville was hiring for officers. And that was also something that I've always been drawn toward. And so I joined the police department and, was fortunate to be able to serve as a police officer in patrol.

00;01;11;18 - 00;01;39;27
Judge Veile
I was in, I never lost the desire to to go through, law school and become an attorney. And so when the opportunity presented itself for me to attend the Nashville School of Law while I was serving as an officer, I jumped at the opportunity. And, so after I served in patrol for a few years, and had been in law school for a couple of years, I was then transferred to the Case Preparation Division and became one of the law instructors at the police academy.

00;01;39;29 - 00;02;07;11
Judge Veile
So I was teaching the officers the law that they needed to use constitutional and statutory law, that they needed to use to, to enforce the law. I was then promoted to Sergeant and was a Patrol Sergeant, for, for a period. By that time, I had my law degree, had passed the bar having a law license, and, was able to to then take the the jump from law enforcement to living the law as an attorney.

00;02;07;18 - 00;02;23;06
Host
You know, something unique in that story is that a lot of judges never get to see the boots on the ground work. They go into something like a DUI stop or a domestic violence situation that's, you know, sort of unfolding right in front of your eyes that you have to de-escalate and it's going to be judged later in court.

00;02;23;11 - 00;02;27;10
Host
But that's not the case for you. Do you think that kind of experience helps you now in your current role?

00;02;27;13 - 00;02;53;24
Judge Veile
Absolutely I do. I think the advent of body cameras has helped because it does to some extent, give judges the opportunity to have a limited view of the officer's perspective on the scene. But even that doesn't capture really the totality of being presented with, with the situation that can can take a bad turn in an instant.

00;02;53;26 - 00;03;19;06
Judge Veile
And having to be in the moment, making decisions, evaluating all the different issues and circumstances and, and doing ultimately what has to be done under the law. So I do think it's given me an advantage in the sense that when I have an officer come and take the stand and testify in a suppression hearing or in a trial, I've been where they've been and I've, I've knocked on the door at 3 a.m..

00;03;19;06 - 00;03;41;29
Judge Veile
I've made the traffic stop, for a tail light out, knowing that it may just be a traffic stop for a tail light out, or there may be a pound of methamphetamine in the trunk. And so I think that gives me, when officers describe the situation, I think it gives me, a good perspective for what they were going through at the time.

00;03;42;02 - 00;03;57;15
Judge Veile
That helps me in making a determination. As for whatever the legal standard may be, probable cause, reasonable suspicion, but I think I have a healthy working knowledge of the actual hands on life situation that, that these officers deal with every day.

00;03;57;20 - 00;04;13;03
Host
So take me from sergeant police force or for Metro PD, going to law school, getting your law license. Now, take me from. What made you decide? You know, I have this law degree. I'm ready to transition.

00;04;13;04 - 00;04;35;01
Judge Veile
When I was in law school, I did not plan to get my law degree and lead the department. I really enjoyed, serving as an officer. And, and so that was not something I was just going to check off. But, once I got my law degree and was licensed and I was serving as a sergeant, I was on the midnight shift.

00;04;35;05 - 00;04;57;24
Judge Veile
I had young kids at the time, and I just, I felt that there was more. I could do more as an attorney at that point than I could as a as an officer and a sergeant. And so, I had, several opportunities, several job offers. I was able to, to jump in when I first began, practicing law because I had been an officer.

00;04;57;26 - 00;05;20;18
Judge Veile
I just I was not going to do criminal defense. I would never, would never do that. I'd been on the other side for so long. And so I started with civil litigation and, business litigation, construction litigation, some land use, type work. And, I did that for, for several years, and it just wasn't what I enjoyed.

00;05;20;21 - 00;05;39;10
Judge Veile
It was a job and I was very fortunate to have it, but it wasn't something I look forward to doing every day. And so I had to do a self-assessment at one point. And, I just I thought to myself, when I look at my calendar, what what piqued my interest, what makes me excited, to to go to court, go to work.

00;05;39;12 - 00;06;02;00
Judge Veile
And it was when one of the partners friends, kids had been arrested for simple possession or a DUI, because I knew the law and I know how officers think and how they relate. And I, I started doing more of that and realized it's it was what I was meant to do at the time. And I really, really enjoyed it.

00;06;02;00 - 00;06;22;12
Judge Veile
And I think I was able to give my clients, a good service because I had been there and been been on the other side. And so I knew the right way to do it. I knew how it's done, and I could use that. And and having reasonable conversations with DA's and, and trying to resolve cases if possible or if necessary, taking them to trial.

00;06;22;12 - 00;06;31;23
Judge Veile
So it started with civil, and I swore I'd never do criminal defense. And then eventually, evolved into doing about 95% criminal defense.

00;06;31;26 - 00;06;40;23
Host
You know, it's interesting that you didn't want anything to do with criminal defense when you first got in. I would have thought that's what you know. Yeah. Why not? I mean.

00;06;40;25 - 00;07;01;14
Judge Veile
It just my initial thought, was, you know, I didn't want to I hate to use this term, but I didn't want to go to the dark side because I had I had one perspective because of my law enforcement experience. I had one perspective of of a defense attorneys job, which was to to try to get these defendants off.

00;07;01;17 - 00;07;29;17
Judge Veile
And what I realized in, in going in and serving in that role as a defense attorney is that's not a defense attorneys job, a defense attorney's job is to ensure that the Constitution is respected and followed, that the law is followed and that, justice is done, whatever that may be, with any particular criminal defendant or any any person who finds themselves in, in the criminal justice system and have represented victims and assisted victims, at times over my career.

00;07;29;19 - 00;07;38;19
Judge Veile
But, but I realized there was my initial perception of a of a defense attorneys role was not accurate.

00;07;38;24 - 00;07;51;20
Host
So starting in 2011, you began applying for a judicial vacancy in the 21st Judicial District, finally succeeding in 2024. What made you keep the motivation for applying for judicial vacancies in the 21st?

00;07;51;23 - 00;08;19;11
Judge Veile
We I would say a few years into my practice, I had the benefit because of the, the firm, where I was employed, I was able to go to, different courts in many different counties all over Middle Tennessee and appear in front of at last count, it was over 125 different judges. And I could see how how certain judges did things differently and just felt a calling pretty early on that based on my experience.

00;08;19;11 - 00;08;41;10
Judge Veile
And, and my skill set that I did, I thought that I would be a good fit for that. And so I felt, just a few years into my practice that at some point, that I would be a good fit on the bench. And, so I began with my first application in 2011 and, and was nominated, but was not the appointee, but, but I didn't lose that spark.

00;08;41;10 - 00;09;04;03
Judge Veile
I didn't lose that that draw, what I felt was a calling over the years, there were three additional opportunities, to apply, three a total of three, applications for Circuit Court. And then one application for the Court of Criminal Appeals. And I was fortunate to receive a nomination four out of four times, which I, I was deeply honored and and deeply honored.

00;09;04;05 - 00;09;28;23
Judge Veile
But with, with the last nomination and, and not receiving the appointment, I decided that after trying for an appointment four times, it was time to, to go a different route. And so, I elected to, to run in the election and, and try to if I couldn't get appointed, then I was going to try to get elected.

00;09;28;25 - 00;09;29;11
Host
And you did.

00;09;29;18 - 00;09;29;26
Judge Veile
And I did.

00;09;29;26 - 00;09;51;01
Host
Successfully, yeah. Other people that we talked to who've changed careers in the law sort of had this like epiphany moment of like Justice Page, for example, he was doing pharmacy school, became a pharmacist. And like a year in, I was like, I can't do this anymore. It doesn't seem like it was like that for you. You always saw it as like the next ladder, you know?

00;09;51;07 - 00;10;00;18
Host
And police officer, I love it, but I know where my next step is. I'm a lawyer, but I know where my next step is. Explain that mindset a little bit to me.

00;10;00;20 - 00;10;25;13
Judge Veile
I've just always tried to be open to change, which is, I'm not inherently, a fan of change. I, I tend to resist change. I think just my nature. And so I have to be, conscious about accepting change and actually seeking change. My goal initially to become a lawyer again, that started in high school.

00;10;25;16 - 00;10;43;07
Judge Veile
But I was not afraid to do something different for a period. And it's interesting. I have three children. My daughters, I have twin daughters that are 22, and my son is 17, and I had a conversation with my son a year or two ago, and he was really stressed out because all of his friends at school knew exactly what they wanted to do.

00;10;43;07 - 00;11;04;11
Judge Veile
They knew where they wanted to go to college. They knew what they what their career was going to be. And he was really stressed because he just didn't know. And I tried to speak some piece to that and say, well, the beauty of it is, and I'm a perfect example, is you don't just have to do one thing and you can get out and try something and do your best and do it for a period.

00;11;04;11 - 00;11;32;10
Judge Veile
And if that's what sticks, great. But if not, just the worst thing you can do is make the decision that you're locked into something for, for, for the rest of your life. And so what I've tried to impart to my children, and I would love to impart to anyone, is work hard, do your best. But if if what you are doing doesn't make your soul fill feel fulfilled, then change it.

00;11;32;11 - 00;11;59;10
Judge Veile
And don't be afraid to step out and do something different and do a complete career change. Or if even just a change within the career, like I did from police work into, becoming an attorney and then even as an attorney, going from one practice area to another. Life is short. The worst thing you can do is be in a job where on Sunday afternoon you dread going to work Monday morning and on on Thursday you're pining away for the weekend.

00;11;59;13 - 00;12;10;18
Judge Veile
Life's too short for that. And so, what I've tried to impart to my kids and what I would try to impart to anyone is just be be willing to, to change and don't feel like you're locked in.

00;12;10;20 - 00;12;13;02
Host
Judge Veile, thank you so much for joining us on Tennessee Court Talk.

00;12;13;05 - 00;12;14;18
Judge Veile
Sure. Thank you very much. Glad to be here.